The Good, the Bad and the Boring - Famous People I have Interviewed (Part One)

Rowan Atkinson. Image courtesy of BBC

Dave Allen was fabulous, Douglas Adams was gracious, Rowan Atkinson was charming, and Mel Smith was obnoxious. Arthur Lowe of Dad's Army was downright boring.

How do I know this? Because I interviewed them all and many others during my time hosting a regional news programme in New Zealand during the 1980s . 

(A note of caution: many of the famous people I interviewed are now dead, so if anyone suggests I should talk to you, run for the hills)

Before I spill the beans on some of the world's rich and famous, let me explain how I came to be in a position to meet these noters. In a nutshell, I had joined what was, back in the late 1970s, the BCNZ - the Broadcasting Corporation of New Zealand. I worked firstly in radio as an announcer with Radio New Zealand (RNZ), and after a couple of years moved into television (TVNZ) as a continuity announcer. 

In those days, as in the UK, TV announcers appeared on screen between the programmes to back-announce one programme and preview those coming up. We did this live on air, and wrote our own scripts. Quaintly, there were only women on the day shift and men on the evening shift. We males got the raw end of the deal as we were on duty till midnight.

Continuity announcing, like flying...

Live continuity announcing was like flying – long periods of boredom interrupted by moments of sheer terror. 

Being live on TV was tense, because usually you had only a minute or so to do your stuff between programmes, and then while the programmes themselves were playing you had nothing to do at all, except maybe chat to the Programme and Technical Directors, or read a book. Or of course watch television.

So it wasn't too long before I started looking for other opportunities, but first I had my first ever meeting with someone famous.

I was asked to interview Arthur Lowe, well known at the time for playing Captain Mainwaring in the enormously successful British comedy Dad’s Army.

He was visiting our studios for some reason, and one of the Programme Directors persuaded him to be interviewed on tape, for possible broadcast. It was a very last-minute arrangement, and all I had to go on by way of research was an old copy of the BBC’s Who’s Who on TV. The biographical information on Lowe was minimal, though it did mention he was interested in vintage steam boats.

So, Arthur Lowe and I are sat in one of the small presentation studios with a camera glaring at us, and I start asking him questions.

Yawn...

My first mistake was that I expected him to be funny, since he reduced everyone to tears in every episode of Dad’s Army. I was so wrong. 

Arthur Lowe was one of the dullest men I’ve ever met. I thought I would lead him onto the subject of vintage steam boats, and asked, ‘So what do you like to do in your spare time?” To which he replied with a shake of his head, ‘Oh I don’t have any spare time.' End of conversation.

We recorded a 15-minute interview, and when we reviewed it later (after Lowe had left) we found we couldn’t use any of it; he was just so incredibly boring. It was a big disappointment for me, but also an eye-opener, because I realised (many years later) that it was actually my fault. 

My problem was I was still wet behind the ears as far as interviewing was concerned, and very naïve. I'd expected him to be amusing, but in fact he was a comic actor, not a comedian. However, that shouldn’t have made him any less interesting. 

What I should have done was ask him why didn’t he have any spare time, was he a

workaholic, what other work did he do apart from Dad’s Army, how did this impact on his family life, and so on. Unfortunately I didn’t, and worse: it was a mistake I was to repeat with someone more famous later. But at the time the conclusion we reached was that Arthur Lowe was just dull.

The novelty of live continuity announcing wore off after 18 months or so, though I knew I loved the television medium, so when a vacancy for a news anchor role came up I applied, and after a successful audition and interview I got the job.

Good Evening and welcome to Today Tonight

Suddenly I was in a role that carried a lot more gravitas. I was a newsreader and interviewer, with the added bonus of being able to go into the field to record short features. And every evening, Monday through Friday, we the regional news team had to deliver live local news, between 6.40pm and 7.00pm, which I fronted. It was my first experience of working in a busy newsroom, and I loved it.

Perhaps the best part of the news anchor job though was the chance to interview some really famous people, either live in the studio or out 'in the field' on film (yes, it was 16mm film then, not video tape – that came later).

Every time someone famous came to town to do a show or similar we would get the chance to interview them. In the time I fronted Today Tonight – about four years – I met and interviewed stars as diverse as Barry Humphries (Dame Edna), Douglas Adams (Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy), scientist and astronomer Carl Sagan, French mime artist Marcel Marceau, the Botanic Man Dr. David Bellamy, comedians Mel Smith and Griff Rhys-Jones, Irish comedian Dave Allen (Yes, okay, I know he looks bored in the photo but he wasn't; I'm scintillating company, especially with a glass of wine in hand...) Great Dane Victor Borge, astronomer Sir Patrick Moore, the legendary Rowan Atkinson and the equally legendary Spike Milligan.

Dave Allen and I waiting while the crew set up

Bands such as Dire Straits and the Hollies joined the list along with some local Kiwi noters too, such as poet Sam Hunt, Prime Minister Rob Muldoon and property magnate Sir Bob Jones, among others.

Because the programme was only 20 minutes’ duration our interviews were, of necessity, short – usually no more than five minutes’ long. In the studio this meant being quite strict with timing, but in the field you could interview at length and then edit down afterwards. Thus it was my interview with Rowan Atkinson in the studio passed in a flash. I can’t now recall what we talked about, but he was very gracious. At that time he was known for his role in the British comedy Not The Nine O’clock News and had yet to assume the persona of Mr Bean or Blackadder.

Rowan Atkinson in Not The Nine O'clock News.
Image: Pinterest

Unlike Arthur Lowe, Atkinson was a joy to interview, even though what we talked about is lost in my ever-depleting neurons. But I do recall one of the intriguing things about Atkinson and that was that he had a stutter. 

Nothing major, nothing that would cause excruciating embarrassment where he just couldn’t get a word out, but I could recognise the technique he used to overcome it – sometimes by changing a word he was about to use, or taking a breath or pausing as though thinking (I know about these because I stuttered as a child and used the same coping mechanisms). And yet, when you watch him in Blackadder or Johnny English there isn’t the slightest hint of a stammer.

I too discovered that if the microphone was on, I never ever stuttered, but outside of the studio I would occasionally still have trouble with words. 

I saw this same suppressive effect in action with another TVNZ presenter of the 80s who hosted a live Sunday studio-based religious programme. Off-air he had quite an obvious stutter, but once that red light was on you would never ever know. I wonder why nobody has done a thesis on this.

Rowan Atkinson kindly autographed my script that evening before he left with then-girlfriend Lesley Ash (later to star in Men Behaving Badly and more). I pinned the script to the wall of the dressing room I used, from where it was later stolen. I think I know who did it, but no doubt he had an 'aleebee'.

Irish comic Dave Allen was another charmer, and I'll tell you more about meeting him and others in Part Two. Soon. Well, sometime soon; let's get the festive season out of the way first :-)

Red wine: is it good for your health?

 asks Mike Bodnar...

Image: thedrinksbusiness.com

Well, I could just say yes and we could all just head down to the nearest wine bar for a damn
good workout. But it's a bit more complicated than that, and anyway, is the answer actually yes?

Whether red wine is good for you is a question that's been pondered for decades, and it's not an easy question to answer – it's also not a simple question to ask.

Why? Because of course there are plenty of red wine drinkers who only want to hear that yes it is good for you, so these are not the right people to be asking the question of in the first place, even if they're as fit and healthy as a butcher's dog.

No, the best people to ask 'Is red wine good for you?' are the scientists and health professionals who are able to study the properties of red wine dispassionately, and not with one eye on the time to see how long it is till wine o'clock.

But before we learn a drop more about what they've been finding out, we need to ask: why red wine in particular? Why not white wine?

And why is red wine red? Questions, questions; it's enough to drive you to drink.

Pinot Noir, bursting with polyphenols. Image: Mike Bodnar

Surprisingly, there are only a handful of grape varieties in the world that have red juice. The vast majority of red grapes have clear juice. The colour of red wine comes from the grape skins when the winemaker leaves the skins and the juice in contact for a while after pressing – the longer the contact, the deeper the red.

So that suggests that any health properties of red wine must come from the grape skins rather then the juice. And yes, that's right. Grape skins contain antioxidants called polyphenols which research has shown to be generally good for us.

And there are more polyphenols in red grapes than white grapes, so that's why there's more focus on red wine and what it can do for us. I'll drink to that.

One of these polyphenols is resveratrol - not a word to try after a few glasses of Penfold's Hermitage - but, I'm delighted to tell you, resveratrol can be both heart-protecting and anti-aging, so obviously a little of that wouldn't do us any harm right? True, but there's a catch.

Studies in mice showed compelling evidence that resveratrol had definite beneficial effects, because it decreases bad cholesterol (LDL), and increases good cholesterol (HDL). Must be true – when did you last see a mouse with a Zimmer frame?

But the mice were given resveratrol as a supplement - they didn't attend a red wine tasting.

Image: http://www.la-rubrica-della-chimica.com/

For those benefits to be felt by humans it's said – by one Harvard-linked Dr. Kenneth Mukamal – that we'd have to drink hundreds or even a thousand glasses of red wine a day to ingest the required amounts of the good stuff. I can hear red wine fans shouting 'yes!' and punching the air right now, but before you pop the cork on that delicious Burgundy you were saving for Christmas, let's face it – a hundred glasses of red wine a day and you've got a problem.

But the actual amount of red wine that's 'good for you' is contentious anyway. There seems to be general agreement that yes red wine does contain elements of benefit, but there's a whole wine-box of other factors to take into consideration.

What is 'good for you' depends on, for example, your gender. Sadly ladies, it has been proved

that men can safely drink more than women – in a health context that is. Obviously either sex (and, to be completely woke, any gender or combination of genders) can get completely wasted if they want to, but that's not the point.

For example, it's suggested that a couple of glasses of red wine a day for males, and one glass for females, can have health benefits. Any more and those benefits don't necessarily increase, any less and you might not get any benefits at all. It's a typically cautious approach though, as no scientist wants to be seen promoting alcohol, or end up in court being sued by someone who develops a drinking problem and shouts, 'I'll she yew in court pal!'.

If you're boozy you'll get dizzy. Image Mike Bodnar

But the 'right' amount also depends on factors such as your weight, the rest of your diet, and how you live on a day-to-day basis.

Which brings us to the issue of lifestyle. Have you heard of the 'French Paradox'? This is based on the fact that the French drink a lot of red wine – at least in comparison with most other countries – while also having a high intake of dietary cholesterol and saturated fat, and yet the French have a relatively low incidence of Coronary Heart Disease (CHD) death rates.

That's the paradox: France is a nation of bon vivants who should, in principle, not live long enough to enjoy a fine vintage Bordeaux that needs to be aged in the cellar for 60-to-80 years before it's ready to drink. They'd be popping their clogs before they could pop the cork. But somehow they do live long enough, and have a much lower rate of CDH than say the Scandiwegian countries, or Britain or Northern Ireland.

So on the surface it would look as though drinking red wine is good for your heart. But that's hardly a scientific study – it's more anecdotal, and some scientists are suspicious of French medical statistics, saying that it's possible some French doctors fail to record CHD as a contributing factor on death certificates. Sacre Bleu!

In principle, the French tucking in to meals of goose liver, rich cheeses, pastries and croissants (maybe not on the same plate) should result in their keeling over at quite a high rate. And yet, washing it all down with glasses of red wine seems to be an antidote.

Perhaps we can leave the French doctors and the world's scientists to duel at dawn – corkscrews at 20 paces.

The menu plays a big part. Image: Mike Bodnar

In the meantime, also supporting the influence of lifestyle is the Mediterranean diet. This shows that a diet that comprises a lot more fruit and vegetables is definitely healthier – no surprises there, we all need our five a day – but a scientific study showed that when combined with red wine the benefits multiply.

Remember at the start when I said the question 'Is red wine good for you?' isn't an easy one to ask? Now you're getting the picture; it's because no country's population anywhere simply survives on red wine alone. We don't have a red wine control group. There are always multiple factors at play, and that's the case in the Mediterranean countries where diet plays such an important role in the statistics.

The good news is that international studies are ongoing, and there's hardly a month goes by without new research revealing that red wine in certain contexts has demonstrable benefits. For example, a recent study published in the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease shows there's link between our diet and preventing cognitive decline. 

The Iowa State University study revealed that cheese, by a significant factor, was the most protective food against age-related cognitive problems. For those of us of 'a certain age' the really welcoming news is that this even applies later in life. 

But wait, there's more! It gets better. Most of us know that cheese and wine are natural taste buddies, and I'm delighted to reveal that the same study into cheese's positive effects on cognitive decline also showed that a daily consumption of alcohol, notably red wine, resulted in improvements in cognitive function. Personally I usually find the opposite applies, but hey, I'm not going to argue with science.

Possible benefits for those 'of a certain age'. Image: Mike Bodnar

And the study was a seriously in-depth one, not something just swirled around and spat out. Data was collected from almost 1,800 'aging adults' in the UK over a 10-year period.

Auriel Willette, who's an assistant professor in Food Science and Human Nutrition at Iowa State, was quoted as saying, 'I was pleasantly surprised that our results suggest that responsibly eating cheese and drinking red wine daily are not just good for helping us cope with our current COVID-19 pandemic, but perhaps also dealing with an increasingly complex world that never seems to slow down.' 

Mr Willette went on to note, 'I believe the right food choices can prevent the disease (Alzheimer's) and cognitive decline altogether. Perhaps the silver bullet we're looking for is upgrading how we eat. Knowing what that entails contributes to a better understanding of Alzheimer's and putting this disease in a reverse trajectory.'

Those are big, robust and juicy claims to make, but I for one will be happy to carry on the research at home. Now, where's my cheese knife, and where did I put that corkscrew?

,

Four Candles Re-lit

 

Britain's favourite television comedy sketch, Four Candles, dates back to the mid-1970s.

The Four Candles. Image: Daily Mail

The sketch featured on the primetime TV show The Two Ronnies, starring Ronnie
Corbett and Ronnie Barker. It was an immediate hit, tickling the nation's funny bone with the premise of the mis-heard phrase 'four candles' when in fact it was fork handles that Ronnie Barker wanted to buy.

Further homophonic misunderstandings occur during the sketch while Barker tries to buy other items from Corbett, including hose; what Barker wanted was Os - for his house name - as in 'Mon Repose'. It relied on Cockney pronunciation to elevate the confusion, but it was fun to both watch and listen to.

Ronnie Corbett losing patience. Image: stuff.co.nz

However, it had a weak ending - Barker said he was never really happy with it - when Corbett grabs Barker's shopping list in frustration and is horrified at what was to come next. It was a lame visual play on words, and we see Corbett declare that he absolutely wouldn't be providing the last thing on the list. The camera then zooms in on a drawer labelled 'Bill Hooks', and we're to assume Barker would have pronounced it 'bollocks'. (A billhook is a type of forestry or gardening cutting implement)

I agreed with Ronnie B that the ending was weak - it was changed for a 2005 Two Ronnies' Special where Corbett looks at the list and storms out, only to be replaced by a rather well-built young lady who also works in the store and asks, "Right then sir, what kind of knockers are you looking for?" 

I know, we groan now at the dad joke, but it would have appealed to Ronnie Barker who absolutely loved old English seaside postcard humour.

Image: Metro

Over the years I've seen the Four Candles sketch resurface or referred to many times, and it's been voted Britain's favourite TV comedy sketch and the best Two Ronnies' sketch on at least two occasions. The original script surfaced on an episode of Antiques Roadshow in 2006 and a year later sold at auction for a whopping £48,500. That's a lot of candles.

But I always thought Barker (who wrote it) could have done more with it if he'd perhaps let it gestate in his wonderfully creative brain for a bit longer. It's been gestating in mine for about a year now, and I've been pondering what other homophonic opportunities might have presented themselves in Corbett's hardware and general store. 

I've come up with a few, but of course it's now too late to send them to either Ronnie, so I humbly share my re-imagined Four Candles script here for you. I have kept the beginning, retained the four candles/fork handles part (because, y'know) but the other verbal confusions are mine, and the ending is very different. Read it with the original scenario and characters in mind, hear the two Ronnies' voices in your head, and enjoy.

Four Candles

Re-imagined by Mike Bodnar

Scene: Interior, hardware store, but selling all kinds of goods.

A woman gathers up a pack of toilet rolls from the counter, turns and leaves. Ronnie Corbett is the shopkeeper.

RC: Mind how you go.

Ronnie Barker enters the shop with a list of items he needs and goes to the counter.

RC: Good morning, how can I help?

RB: (Consults list) I want to purchase...

RC: (Waits for more but sees it isn't coming) Yeah, want to purchase what? We've got all sorts in 'ere...

RB: I want to purchase

RC Yeah, I know, you're the customer and I'm the shopkeeper. You want to purchase what?

RB: I want two perches!

RC: Ahhh, I see! Two perches! Well I'm sorry, we don't sell fish. You'll have to go to a pet shop for that.

RB: No! Two perches, for me birds to sit on, in their cage.

RC: Ohhh I see now, two perches. Right. (Reaches under counter and places two perches on the counter top) There you are, two perches.

RB: (Looks at them incredulously) Twelve inches?

RC: Well, together yes. They're six inches each, so two makes twelve inches.

RB: Nah, twelve inches? Won't work!

RC: What? (Exasperated now) Two times six is twelve.

RB: You're not listenin'. I've got twelve finches, twelve birds, they'll never fit on there!

RC: (Looks unimpressed) Twelve finches. Well why didn't you say? (Reaches under counter and brings out two more perches). There, that should do it. What else?

RB: (Consults list) Er, four candles.

RC: (Relieved) Finally, something simple! (Goes to shelf, climbs steps, gets candles and returns). There, four candles.

RB: (Shakes his head). Nah, fork handles. Handles for forks.

RC: (Can't believe what he's hearing). Handles for forks? Handles for forks? (Sighs) How many?

RB: Two.

RC: (Gets two fork handles, places them on the counter)

RB: Some old spray?

RC: Some old...? Why would I sell old spray? All our products are new.

RB: Nah, some mould spray – spray for mould.

RC: You're 'aving me on you are. You're just taking the mickey. (Walks to shelf muttering to himself, returns with mould spray). There, some mould spray. What else?

RB: Er... box o' food.

RC: A box of food. A box of food. Can you be more specific? A box of tomatoes maybe? Box of bananas? You can't just stand there saying 'box of food'!

RB: Nah, boxer food; food for me boxer.

RC: (By now completely exasperated). Then why didn't you just say??!

RB: I did: boxer food.

RC: (Goes and gets tin of dog food, slams it on counter). Now please, tell me something straightforward that I can get you, finish your shopping and get out of my store!

RB: (A bit miffed) Right. Key fob.

RC: Good. Excellent. A key fob. Simple. (Reaches under the counter and slaps a key fob on the counter top). There.

RB: (Looks at it, bewildered) Nah, Key fob, the manager, Mr Hobb. Keith (he pronounces the name 'Keef). Keef 'Obb.

RC: (Looks taken aback, worried) Mr 'Obb? Keef Hobb? What do you want to see him for?

RB: 'Cos I want to complain about your appalling communication skills!

(Audience applause, ends)

The Four Candles Pub, Oxford. Image: Wikiwand

Please share any other homophonic ideas you might have in the comments section! The original sketch is on You Tube here.

For Better or for Worse

I have just been turned down for a job. Again. It's something I've got used to now, especially at my age. I'm too old, too white, and too male.

Am I grumpy? You betcha, but there's not much point in teeth-gnashing - my teeth are bad enough as it is. 

Unlike the Olympics where each event has three winners - Gold, Silver and Bronze for first, second and third respectively - when there's a job vacancy there is only one winner. Everyone else is a complete and utter down-and-out loser, including those so close to the finishing line on the shortlist who fail to get the job.

The role I went for was with the BBC as a staff comedy writer. And before you say, 'Well, you were never going to get that; that's way too ambitious', what you don't know is that I also recently applied for a vacancy as a cleaner. I didn't get that either. (And no, that wasn't for the BBC), so I am unemployable at either end of the scale.

I was actually holding out a slim hope for the BBC role as I ticked all the boxes in the job description and requirements. So, I duly went online and filled in the application template. I dislike application templates because they tend to be restrictive in how you can present yourself to best effect; they're more akin to multiple-choice exam questions as opposed to, say, having to write an essay on something. But I gave it my best shot, and I was delighted to see that the application also required me to demonstrate some creativity.

In one of the template windows they asked me to write a 500-word speech for the best man or matron of honour at a wedding where the couple should definitely not be marrying each other. Perhaps I failed to get the job because my speech came to 499 words.

In reality, the polite but-nonetheless-infuriating BBC rejection email said that because I didn't already have two broadcast comedy writing credits to my name I was discounted. And yet, as I highlighted in my application, I have written comedy - for the Stand-Up and be Counted show I initiated and produced through Radio New Zealand in 2009 (when I was not only producer but also the show's host), and multiple times for my own comedy gigs, either solo or with other Kiwi comics. But that doesn't count. Could it be because it wasn't for the BBC?

To make me feel better they told me they'd had over 800 applicants. I don't care about that, but obviously one of those has already written for TV and so is 'established'. It's the old vicious cycle thing again: you can't have the job unless you've had the job.

Anyway, I did like it that the Beeb actually wanted to see some evidence of comedy writing - it makes a change from just having to fill in your school grades (at my age for God's sake! What possible relevance do they have??). But rather than the wedding speech ending up in Auntie's 'Deleted' box, I present it to you here and now, all 499 words of it. You never know, you might find a use for it :-)

The Wedding Speech

Image courtesy of 
SnappyGoat.com

In a moment I will be asking you to raise your glasses, those of you who are wearing them, so that you'll better be able to see our celebrated couple, Professor Sir Ahmed Al Abdin-Amdad... and Charlene – or Chazza as she likes to be known – in soft focus.

Why? Because – in the photography sense – soft focus enhances, filters, and – as any big screen star knows – hides blemishes.

And it's the blemishes of course that Chazza and Ahmed know very well. It's the flaws, the many imperfections that they have accepted in each other, as today they not only tie the knot but soak it in vinegar so that it may never, ever, ever be undone.

For theirs is a union unique. And when I say union, it is because I turned, as all good best men do, to the dictionary to be assured I have chosen my words correctly.

A union, we are told, is a joining, a coupling. But in an engineering sense it also refers to a particular type of bolt usually found on carburettors, which allows the flow of fuel from one place to another. Yes, I can hear some of you understandably sniggering, but let's not forget that fuel mishandled can be a dangerous thing.

And so it seems appropriate at this stage for me just to point out the fire exits: there's one behind you and a second at the end of the corridor just past the gents' toilets – should any conflagration break out.

But for Chazza and Ahmed there are only the flames of passion. Blind to any alarm bells
clamouring and ringing, they smell not the thick black acrid smoke creeping under their door.

Not for them the mad dash down the back stairs to safety, oh no. Together they are their own breathing apparatus, and we can only hope that their air supply doesn't run out.

Instead, ensconced within their asbestos-like envelope of love, singeing though it is as the flames lick all around, they are ignorant of the desperate cries of the people outside shouting 'Fire, fire! Get out now!

Or is it that we can never see things from their point of view? That we, on the outside of their exclusive Freemason-like members-only club, can never know the secret handshakes and passwords, or feel the security that these two share that makes them bulletproof, and of course fireproof.

Image from Pixnio

Perhaps if they were to stare with us into the crackling flames, they too might question the incorrect application of flammable materials, the illegally propped-open fire doors, and the dangling broken bulbs of emergency lighting.

Oh yes, the familiar green exit signs have been there since the beginning for all to see, but as we well know, familiarity breeds contempt, and Ahmed and Chazza have been very, very familiar.

And today, as we all witnessed, they became as one, and agreed that it would be for better or for worse.

Please raise your glasses to our extinguished couple, Chazza and Ahmed!